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Nine different New Revolution Virtual Reality Coasters open to the general public at Six Flags theme parks around the country this Thursday, April 21st. A couple of roller coaster veterans Six Flags who had seen every roller coaster imaginable and had ceased to be impressed by new theme park rides saw a VR Coasters demo by Thomas Wagner on a pretty mild roller coaster at Orlando&#;s Fun Spot America while wearing a Gear VR, and it completely blew them away. It made such a bit impression that they made a quick decision to get the technology into 9 different theme parks as fast as they could.
Nick DiCarlo is the Vice President of Immersive Products & Virtual Reality at Samsung, and I caught up with him at SXSW to hear more about the VR Coaster technology syncs their VR experience to each roller coaster, how they&#;re managing the logistics of Gear VR headsets, and the future of using Gear VR headsets in theme park attractions.
LISTEN TO THE VOICES OF VR PODCAST
http://voicesofvr.com/wp-content/uploads//04/Voices-of-VR-344-Nick-DiCarlo.mp3
I was going to go try out one of the Six Flags VR roller coasters before GDC as part of a Samsung media event, but it was postponed due to bad weather in Dallas that week. I&#;m fairly sensitive to motion sickness caused by visual and vestibular disconnects, and so the jury is still out for me as to whether or not these VR coasters have good enough tracking and synchronization to not cause sim sickness for those who are already particularly sensitive. Leave a comment to me @kentbye on Twitter if you have a chance to try out any of these roller coasters and how sensitive you are to motion sickness from VR locomotion.
Here&#;s some game play footage from Theme Park Review of a roller coaster on the New Revolution Virtual Reality Coasters
Here&#;s a 30-second promo for the New Revolution Virtual Reality Coasters at Six Flags
And here&#;s a 7 and a half minute documentary about bringing these VR Roller Coasters to Six Flags
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD2N8Cxi4tY
Become a Patron! Support The Voices of VR Podcast Patreon
Theme music: &#;Fatality&#; by Tigoolio
Subscribe to the Voices of VR podcast.
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[00:00:05.452] Kent Bye: The Voices of VR Podcast. My name is Kent Bye, and welcome to The Voices of VR Podcast. So today we're going to be talking about roller coasters and virtual reality. Not going on a roller coaster within virtual reality, but actually going on a real life roller coaster while wearing a Gear VR and having some sort of virtual experience on this theme park ride. So at Six Flags, they have a new revolution virtual reality coaster that's opening up at a number of different locations around the country on April 21st for the first time to the public. And they're going to be able to go on a roller coaster and having a completely different experience virtually as to all the haptic feedback that's happening to them. And so I was at South by Southwest and I had just finished up speaking on a panel about emotion in VR when I had a chance to catch up with Nick DiCarlo, who is the Vice President of Immersive Products and Virtual Reality at Samsung. And so he's been working on the Gear VR for quite a while. I'll be talking about the story as to why Six Flags is kind of going all in into VR and integrating into their roller coasters from a company called VR Coasters. And the VR demo that really blew away these seasoned veterans of theme park rides where they were at the point where nothing really impressed them anymore. And so it's kind of an interesting story to hear how VR got onto the radar and their reaction to it. So yeah, I've just been really enjoying traveling around the country and bringing you all these different insights from different leaders and pioneers in the virtual reality field. And if you'd like to hear more, then one thing you can do is contribute to my Patreon, but you can also just spread the word about this podcast to people who are just getting into virtual reality. I have a lot of people who come up to me and say that they recommend people listen to the Voices of AR podcast if they're interested in getting into VR. For some people that's a little overwhelming because, you know, I do do a podcast every weekday and that at this point is over 340 episodes. I do have a top 10 list that people can look at to get started and I hope to add some more tags and ways to navigate the site in preparation for my talk that I'm giving at the Silicon Valley Virtual Reality Conference coming up next week, April 27th. 11 a.m. I'll be giving a talk on highlights from over 400 Voices of VR podcast interviews, and I'll be trying to give an overview and roadmap into different highlights that I've had over the last couple of years. And so with that, let's go ahead and dive right in.
[00:02:54.989] Nick DiCarlo: I'm Nick DiCarlo with Samsung USA, and I coordinate VR across all of the big Samsung here in the U.S.
[00:03:02.457] Kent Bye: Great. So there was just a big release of VR on roller coasters. So maybe you could tell me a bit about what's that all about?
[00:03:09.701] Nick DiCarlo: Yeah. So roller coasters in VR is one of those sort of first idea things that everybody has. We find them uncomfortable. And then I learned of this company out of Germany called VR Coasters run by this guy named Thomas Wagner. He's a professor in Germany. And he had this idea to put VR on roller coasters. He actually did it with a DK-1 with a computer sitting in the seat of the roller coaster. And he found the roller coaster broke the computer. And so it didn't work. And this is many years before Gear VR. And so he said, I believe that someday there will be mobile VR. And when there is, this will be suitable. And six months later, Gear VR was announced. And so he built the system that provides their precise tracking between the coaster and the headset. And then he needed to find customers, big amusement park companies. And so he has some successes with Universal in Japan, but Six Flags here in the U.S. is sort of the big fish. And Six Flags saw Thomas' demo at a roller coaster trade show in Orlando this fall. And they were so impressed that they said, we want to get behind this in a big way. Their chairman, their executive committee decided to do that. And when they decided that they had called us, we had an existing relationship and they called me and said, we want to do something big in VR. What do you think? And we brought it to all the team in Samsung, the CMO, and they were into it as a great way to reach a lot of people who maybe wouldn't get to try VR. And also just one of those cool sort of chocolate and peanut butter goes great together types of things. And a couple short months here we are riding roller coasters in virtual reality.
[00:04:42.328] Kent Bye: Right. So let's start with like what was it like to ride a roller coaster for the first time when you're actually on a roller coaster.
[00:04:49.036] Nick DiCarlo: Well that's the biggest thing is that everybody including internal employees would ask me You mean a virtual roller coaster, right? And I said, no, really a roller coaster, really with gear VR. That sounds crazy. Aren't you going to get sick? Isn't going to headset going to fly off of you? All of those sort of very natural questions come up and they don't know about position tracking. They don't know about sort of the technology of matching your motion with your vestibular system and the visuals on the screen. So it was one of those things to explain to non VR people. how this is possible and how it works. Sort of you have to push the I believe button a little bit. But as somebody who's been in the VR space for a relatively long amount of time, 18 months, I was really excited to try it. And a couple of weeks ago, I got to try one of the first rides on the coaster. And gosh, it's amazing. I mean, I grew up really enjoying riding roller coasters. But this idea of being in a totally different space, in the particular content that Six Flags is launching with, you don't see the track in front of you. So you really feel like you're flying in space. So everything's more surprising and just more exciting. And it's just so much fun. It's been really great.
[00:05:56.171] Kent Bye: So what's the actual story? What are you seeing in the visuals when you're riding the roller coaster?
[00:06:00.514] Nick DiCarlo: Six Flags is going to have two examples this year. The first one has launches sort of an Armageddon style. Fighter jet pilots fighting aliens in a modern city, landing on aircraft carriers, flying through crashing buildings. It's very sort of The Rock kind of. Armageddon or any of those really cool sort of sci-fi movies and the flying around the aliens is really built into the plot of the roller coaster so as it does loops you're pulling G's up over the aliens and diving down under and so it's all sort of synchronized almost into a little bit of a story you've got your launch sequence and then you've got the first engagement and then you've got the dodging and And then you land as a hero on the aircraft carrier with one of those fast roller coaster stops. And it just all feels real. I mean, roller coaster people say that they feel like they forgot they were even on a roller coaster.
[00:06:52.817] Kent Bye: And so I imagine that you're having some sort of metrics to monitor how things are going. So like, what's been the reaction so far?
[00:07:00.445] Nick DiCarlo: Well, it's really just open for season pass holders and, you know, kind of on an early trial basis so far, but it's exceeded expectations in terms of the interest level, the response from season pass holders who are not VR people, they're just regular amusement park guests. And they're like beating down the gate to come and try it. So there's been an amazing excitement. And so it's interesting as you're a VR person thinking about this idea and then really like regular people, like non mainstream people really being excited about it. It's been amazing. And there's still, of course, a lot to learn, a lot to fine tune and really make it super polished. But for a first few days, it's been tremendously successful.
[00:07:43.223] Kent Bye: Yeah, I was actually going to go and check it out, but due to weather right before GDC, it was rain all week, so I wasn't able to actually fly down and try it out. But I'm really super sensitive to motion sickness, so I was really curious to see if there was going to be anything that was really triggering me. It just takes a little bit of what I'm seeing being off from what I'm feeling for me to start to be a trigger for inducing motion sickness. So what are the types of things that you're doing in order to ensure what someone is seeing is going to be dynamically generated by the VR experience?
[00:08:13.935] Nick DiCarlo: Yeah, so if you've tried it here at South by Southwest, if you've tried our 4D chair roller coaster experience, that's a video of people riding on roller coasters. But what's actually in the experience on the coaster itself is a real-time generated game, essentially a game engine software product. And the application is calibrated so it provides a slightly different experience for each seat, front of the train to the back of the train, left and right. So the first person over the drop drops first and the people in the back of the train that haven't gotten there yet, they don't drop yet. So it's all optical sensors to a beacon to each individual headset. So every single person on the train is getting a slightly, slightly different experience and it's as precisely tuned as they can get it. And actually they have real time calibration monitoring of the accuracy right on a mobile app. The operators showed it to me and I find it, to me, really amazing. It's a challenging application of Gear VR, for sure, but I find that they've done an amazing job and will continue to get better at it.
[00:09:16.348] Kent Bye: Yeah, that makes a lot more sense to have it dynamic like that because, you know, if you try to do a pre-rendered, then if you stopped or, you know, like you said, if people are just in different positions, it has to kind of dynamically change and adapt. And so it must be receiving that information and then somehow updating the algorithm for what's actually being shown to you.
[00:09:34.966] Nick DiCarlo: Yeah, so one of the kind of lo-fi ways that they get the calibration is they put a QR code on the back of each seat. And so as the guest is sitting in their seat, there's a instruction in the VR app to look forward, and it says calibrating. And so it's essentially identifying what seat you are in relative to the beacon. And so each time you get a headset, because there's three headsets per roller coaster seat, one to clean, one to charge, one to ride. And so every time the headset gets onto the ride, it's calibrating to the seat that it's sitting in. And yeah, it's a kind of a lo-fi way. And you never thought QR code would be contributing to a VR experience, but here it is.
[00:10:12.831] Kent Bye: And so these are a number of different roller coasters around the country. And so I'd imagine that you obviously have to customize each coaster in the experience. And so what was the process like to be able to take that data of the coaster and then feed it into the system?
[00:10:28.580] Nick DiCarlo: Sure. So Six Flags has a ride designer named Sam Rhodes, who's the corporate in charge of the whole concept. He essentially wrote the story that was going to happen. And then Thomas from VR Coasters takes that story and translates it into an execution, coaster by coaster. So the ride in Georgia, just like what you said, the ride in Georgia is totally different than the ride in Dallas. The ride in Dallas is two loops. The ride in Georgia is almost like a more vertical up and down kind of ride. And so they have like almost no relationship to each other. So each story is different rider to rider and is really calibrated to that. This summer, they're going to launch some Superman IP based stuff where you're observing Superman fighting Lex Luthor and being saved by him. And same thing. They'll calibrate that coaster by coaster.
[00:11:16.523] Kent Bye: Yeah, the really interesting thing is that, I mean, you go to Six Flags and you go to a single roller coaster, you may get bored after riding it like three, four, five times. But this, with the virtual augmentation of the experience, it seems like you could go forever with a variety of different experiences that you're having.
[00:11:31.771] Nick DiCarlo: Yeah, and I think that the way that Six Flags thinks of it and the way that Samsung thinks of it is, yeah, this is a great way for millions of people to get their first virtual reality experience. And that's why this has some marketing value for both companies. But really, it's a business strategy for Six Flags. Their whole business is about getting guests to come back, whether it's a season pass holder who then buys another soda, or brings different friends with them on their sixth visit of the summer, or wants a new ride the next year, and they can digitally change the ride instead of physically having to build a new ride. So it's a tremendous business strategy opportunity for Six Flags. And for me, as somebody who's trying to help popularize virtual reality, Finding really high ROI business applications for virtual reality we feel is a great way to help propagate the technology because it just lets more people experience it, understand what it is and be wowed by it like you and I are. So I was really glad that Six Flags was willing to go so aggressively at this space because it really is intended to be a successful business, not just a marketing strategy.
[00:12:35.409] Kent Bye: I noticed that there's some chin straps to help secure the Gear VR HMD. So what were some of the special considerations that you had to ensure that this thing wasn't going to start flying off people's faces?
[00:12:45.758] Nick DiCarlo: Yeah, and I think you've had the experience of when you are doing something with somebody who's the expert or creator, how they do it versus how they'll apply it to millions of people are very different. So Thomas just rides a regular Gear VR, unmodified on the coaster without issue. But for the operation of Six Flags across all their parks, of course, safety is their paramount concern. So they put a chin strap under your chin, which is a supplemental chin strap. And the primary purpose of that is to prevent people from taking it off of their heads. It's not actually to hold it through the Gs, but rather to prevent people from taking it off themselves. There's a bright red tag on the side of it, so the ride operators can see that everybody has their chin strapped. And the straps have been covered with a surgical leather, so they can be cleaned really thoroughly, rider by rider. Like I said, there's three per seat. So there's a good rotation, thermal management, all those things. Summer in Dallas is warm, so we'll be thermally testing the devices. in that time, but that's part of the operation flow that they're working through. So that's what Six Flags does, is they really, they operate high throughput events, and so the roller coaster does require, the VR roller coaster does require significantly more staffing than the unmodified ride, but that's a cost that Six Flags is willing to accept to make this happen.
[00:14:01.879] Kent Bye: And what do you know of the story of Six Flags seeing this roller coaster demo for the first time, and what their reaction was?
[00:14:08.884] Nick DiCarlo: I think it's kind of like you and I with virtual reality where we've seen so many demos that a demo that blew us away 18 months ago doesn't blow us away in the same way that maybe it does today. These guys have ridden every roller coaster in the world. They have 208 of them in their own parks. They've probably ridden hundreds of thousands of them more. And so to ride what was essentially a kiddie roller coaster that was set up in Orlando but in virtual reality and as what they say is grizzled amusement veterans to be blown away by that was something that that's what generated so much excitement and had them move so quickly is that they didn't think that they could be impressed anymore by an amusement park ride and they were and So that's how they got motivated so quickly to pursue this opportunity. Oh, wow So it was on like a children's roller coaster then yeah, and I didn't see it obviously But yeah, it was a very tiny easily transported roller coaster to just provide a very rudimentary demo
[00:15:03.967] Kent Bye: Yeah, it just, I mean, it sort of leads towards the out-of-home digital entertainment theme parks having the first early win with roller coasters since it's such a low-hanging fruit in a lot of ways with, you know, so easy to make an amazing experience. But I can imagine all sorts of other ways that they could start to use VR in their theme parks.
[00:15:23.114] Nick DiCarlo: Yeah, absolutely. So another one that they've talked about, and I don't think that this is anyone's sort of first priority that they're going to go for, but is the idea of midway games in virtual reality. And so you can have a global midway game, people competing with prizes. It's another form of social VR. So you're not competing against the three people sitting with you next to the park, but you're competing with the whole world. And it could change the whole dynamic of sort of midway games and this sort of social VR idea. So that's one of the other ideas that are being bounced around as another sort of enterprise application. That's probably more of a PC VR kind of implementation rather than a mobile VR, because it doesn't have the same level of motion. But they've got so many ideas about applying virtual reality in their parks that it's kind of amazing.
[00:16:09.744] Kent Bye: So what's the story of you getting involved with VR for the first time here at Samsung?
[00:16:13.675] Nick DiCarlo: Yeah, it's a funny story. I've been with Samsung a long time. When we started, we made flip phones and swivel phones, so we've been through a lot of evolution in my time with Samsung. I had an innovation team as part of my team, and a young guy named Jimmy Vanden Heuvel came to me with the idea after being inspired by the original Oculus Kickstarter and Google Glass. He said, I think we could do something like this with a . And I said, OK, fine. And he designed up a little 3D printed mount for a and put a swim mask, rubber gasket on it, and a strap. And one of the engineers upstairs, who actually still works on MilkVR today, created a little stereoscopic split. And so it was essentially cardboard in the early . And I found it to be very uncomfortable and not particularly exciting and sort of famously said to him, we shouldn't do this, this is a bad idea. And luckily he didn't listen to me, and he pitched the idea to our colleagues in Korea, who then had the opportunity to pitch it to our friends at Oculus, who were seeking AMOLED displays at the time. John Carmack saw the idea and said, I know how to make this great. And he's so amazing at optimizing software and really getting down to that. So really, ultimately, it's John Carmack's vision and skill that really took Gear VR from what it was to the really well-received product that it is today. So, you know, I give all the credit to John and his vision for that. But it was one of those funny moments to actually been there at sort of the early stages of the concept and then obviously Oculus and the engineers in Korea really took it over the hump and We knew Android really, really well, and John knows VR and optimization brilliantly, and Oculus, the whole team at Oculus. And so it all comes together into this exciting moment. And so then I came back to it as it was starting to become a commercial product, and I've been in sort of the commercialization business, bringing new technologies to market for many years. and VR seemed like the perfect challenge because it's so high friction, right? You've got to put this big thing on your face and convince lots and lots of people to do that. It's not something they're just going to casually pick up on their own and it was a really exciting challenge and it's been a fun 18 months of working on that and a lot of really good progress has been made so far and a lot more to do.
[00:18:23.155] Kent Bye: Why is it that you think that you said no originally? Was it your sensitivity to motion sickness?
[00:18:28.161] Nick DiCarlo: Yeah, I have a sensitive stomach to it. And I wasn't in the VR community at that point. So I didn't really, I didn't really have a sense for those demos that were exciting for people. I was sort of discovering it on my own in Dallas. And seeing like, is this really interesting? Is this something that can really happen? And so once I was exposed to the idea from Jimmy, I started to pay more attention to it and really started to wrap my mind around it. Like, I think we all go through that process. And by the time the product was nearing its commercial readiness, I was a true believer. And so I had that journey myself. I got to have mine a little bit more privately and non-publicly. And so I'm glad for that time.
[00:19:08.252] Kent Bye: What's one of your favorite memories of being in VR?
[00:19:11.193] Nick DiCarlo: You know, the thing that I really enjoyed about VR is events like this where we're here together, where there's this great community of people all sort of passionately working together. I really appreciate the tone that Oculus set early on of we're all working together for VR. And I certainly tried to live through that. And I think that lived up to that kind of vision. And it seems as though everybody else in the space really is doing the same. And so I really like the community of it, the VR community. I went to my first ever SVVR meetup also in . And it was just such a friendly community. Carl's so friendly. And everybody that was there, they didn't know who I was. They're just like, oh, hey, let's hang out. Let me show you some VR. And so that's been the fun part for me, is really the community. And plus, I've been in tech for a long time, and I've never demoed a product for this long and had it still be exciting for people. And so that keeps you going, right?
[00:20:05.059] Kent Bye: Yeah, since you have launched a lot of different products, how is VR different?
[00:20:09.188] Nick DiCarlo: I always think of VR as being, you know, in my own personal journey, right? We're all the stars of our own little book. For me, I've gotten to apply a lot of things I've learned that I've done wrong and done right in my career in the past to try to apply them to this totally different medium where none of the rules work. also and so it's been a great kind of learning experience to try to do something where there are no rules and you're sort of free but take some best practices or things that you've learned from other places so that's my personal journey but mostly it's just exciting to see sort of this organically formed group of people that otherwise have no relation to each other come together across the world and really try to make VR happen. And it's really the first time in my career I've been a part of something like this. It's been super fun.
[00:20:57.075] Kent Bye: And finally, what do you see as kind of the ultimate potential of virtual reality and what it might be able to enable?
[00:21:03.179] Nick DiCarlo: Yeah, so what I tell our business partners, what I tell internally to our colleagues is that our aim is for virtual reality to be 50% of the U.S. population is a user of some kind of virtual reality, which is to say similar in scale to smartphones. And that's a shocking statistic to somebody who's not in the virtual reality world today. They say that's impossible. This is a strapped to your face. That's not possible. And I use that phrase to illustrate that we have a very long technology horizon in this technology of miniaturization, performance improvement, use case innovation, content. There's so much to go. that's why it's so exciting. It's because while the product is great today and works great today, sometimes I say it's the flip era. Everybody had a flip and they loved their flip and they didn't know anything better, but when they saw something better, they rapidly switched and I think we'll see a lot of that in VR. Is that there's a lot of opportunity for continued technological innovation and use case innovation and that's what makes it such an exciting space. It's not just, hey, all these new VR headsets launched in , we're done. It's just really the start.
[00:22:13.247] Kent Bye: Okay, great. Well, thanks so much, Nick. Thank you. I really appreciate it. So that was Nick DiCarlo, who works at Samsung and was kind of the liaison between Six Flags and VR coasters. And some of the key takeaways for me is that, first of all, the Gear VR is pretty amazing to be able to start to be used in this type of digital out-of-home entertainment type of application. actually kind of surprised that they are using these gear VRs in this type of ruggedized environment and you know I wouldn't be surprised if they do some iterations to make it more specific to theme parks but it's just great to see that some of these theme parks were able to dive so far into VRs as to start to integrating some of the latest technologies and really frankly the best mobile headset that's out there at this point. And so also I'd like that Nick gave a huge shout out to John Carmack for being able to help take the Gear VR so far as to be able to make it as impressive as it is. Because if you haven't tried the Gear VR it is something that is pretty surprisingly how good it is. It's probably one of the most common comments that I hear after people try Gear VR is like, oh wow, that was a lot better than I expected. Also, the jury for me is still out as to whether or not doing a roller coaster in VR would make me sick personally. So I'm someone who is very sensitive to motion sickness, so anything that has any type of disconnect between that sinking and if I'm shaking my head too violently at some point and I'm seeing a different visual input to what my body would expect, then there's a good chance that it would make me sick. But, you know, having not been able to actually try it out, I can't say that. I was scheduled to actually go try it out before GDC, but the whole week leading up to the event was raining, and so it got cancelled due to weather. Unfortunately, I'll just have to speculate based upon watching videos and have to wait for another opportunity to use my body as a human guinea pig as I throw myself onto a roller coaster and hope that I don't get sick. But, you know, people, it looks like from the videos I've seen, were having a lot of fun. So, for the most part, go try it out if you feel like you have a strong stomach. So these roller coasters have been open to season pass holders since March 26th, and they're going to open to the general public on March 21st. And so if you're at one of the locations, check it out and let me know if you get sick or not, especially if you're sensitive to motion sickness. I'm curious to hear. And so again, thanks for listening. And if you'd like to support this podcast and help me continue my production of these, then please consider becoming a contributor to my Patreon at Patreon.com slash Voices of VR.
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